Posts by Cold Steel

24

"You don't go to church in a Kingdom Hall"

by stephanie61092 in

"you don't go to church in a kingdom hall" was stated during the public talk yesterday.

the speaker then elaborated that "people who go to church, go to fulfill a spiritual obligation.

coming to the kingdom hall is coming to learn.

Cold Steel

The only engaging process is when people raise their hands to answer questions with underlined answers straight from the material, maybe with a little personal flair.

What would happen if one did raise questions that were a little tougher to answer? I assume you can ask questions freely there, can't you? Don't you ever have any investigators attend? What questions would be considered inappropriate to ask? From what little I understand, members feel pretty free to counsel other members, even when not asked for their input.

What kind of questions could get one into trouble?

20

How can Jesus be the head of the Jehovah's Witnesses

by Watchtower-Free in

.

Cold Steel

It actually goes beyond that.

Can any man-made church be the church of Jesus Christ? As far as I know, no one in the WTBTS ever had any vision or commandment of God to establish it, nor do any of them claim revelation from God. So how would any of its Governing Body ever know whether they were teaching the truth or if they had the authority to act in God's name? You have the soul sleeping doctrine, the blood transfusion doctrine, the bizarre Armageddon exegesis, just to name a few. Then you look at the Church Jesus built. Apostles, prophets, priests, elders, bishops, deacons, teachers, seventy and so forth. Does the WTS have these? Finally, who ordained JW elders, overseers, the GB members? Where did they receive the direction and the ability to baptize or judge the people under their charge? To go door-to-door and tell people that they have the power and the keys to bind in Heaven and Earth takes a great deal of presumption in my view. Or to teach the gospel without being sent. Or to call other churches man-made?

I've got to hand it to them. It takes guts to appoint one's self to assume (and I do mean assume) the authority to represent God when you haven't heard even a peep from Him. At that day when we all stand before God to be judged, I'm not sure I'd know how to answer Him when asked by what authority I assumed to act in His name or dared to represent Him to others, break up families in His name and to stand as judges in Israel. But I'd try to get my story straight before then.

11

Help to build a "Guide to Your New Faith"

by Defianttruth in

i have seen many people ask the question, "if its not the truth what else is there?

" i imagine that most people want to remain in a christian faith so i want to build a matrix for one to use as a guide in finding a new church if he or she feels a need to worship.

i personally don't attend any church and i will keep my personal beliefs to myself.

Cold Steel

If you find a church that condemns people to hell because of what they believe or disbelieve, you might want to look elsewhere. If they feel like all Jews will suffer in a fiery, neverending hell because they don't believe in Jesus, you might also want to give them a pass.

Of all the JW doctrines, which would you keep and which would you deep-six? I assume the JW version of Armageddon would be on the chopping block. But how about soul sleeping? The resurrection? Trinity? Hell? Futurism? (The dispersion and gathering of Judah, the building of the third Jewish temple, the coming of Gog from the north, the two prophets, second coming, millennial reign.)

8

Masons, Tomas Jefferson, Jesus, ancient Egyptian religion, Russell

by Crazyguy in

i believe the masons we're anti christs, tomas jefferson i read even wrote a bible leaving out anything to do with jesus because these masons new the christ was just a retelling of older god's, some of these gods being from the egyptian religion.. russell was said to be a mason and it's interesting that he traveled to egypt to confirm some of his beliefs.

then after he returns home his religion becomes more like that of the ancient egyptian religion then probably any other christians sect.

like the egyptians the jws believe in a two class system one class goes to heaven to be with god, just like the pharaoh's and the other rank and file class goes to a paradise called the field of reeds.

Cold Steel

Free Masons have been badly maligned as "occult" and satanic. You also hear about the use of the pyramid, the all-seeing eye, inverted pentagram and other symbols being used in Satan worship. But many of these symbols were only degraded in recent years. The inverted star was used by ancient Christians and can be found in many ancient churches dating back to the 1200s.

The Masons' all-seeing eye represents the omniscience of God. The use of the pyramid is not a masonic symbol, but the triangle is. But even if it were a masonic symbol, pyramids are found all over the world (such as Egypt, Greece, Spain, the Americas (North and South), Tibet, Vietnam, China, etc.) and are seen as architectural marvels. In fact, all the symbols of free masonry that I've been able to find represent good, decent, honorable and desirable traits and goals. There are no occult, satanic, lecherous, lazy, untruthful or dishonorable teachings and many great men in U.S. history have been Masons.

There are many symbols that were once good that are now seen as evil because they've been adopted by unholy and unimaginative groups like the Church of Satan.

13

Forgiveness Yesterday, Today and Forever

by Cold Steel in

i was just watching the jw broadcasting network and the topic being discussed was forgiveness.

the fellow presenting the topic was talking a brother who had sinned many years ago.

he finally came clean with the local elders, accepted his discipline and got on with his life.

Cold Steel

I think journalism has gone to hell these days in that stories seem to be thrown together from various sources into a template of some kind. I may not be a JW, but if the man's religion is important enough to mention in the story and the headline, it begs the question of whether he was born a JW or converted, and if the latter when and why. If he was baptized after his killings, I think it would be a great story.

The article also indicates that Sutcliffe believes he's on his last leg and isn't long for this world.

What would really be ironic is that Armageddon comes and Sutcliffe is saved by Jehovah, while those 13 women he murdered are resurrected, then annihilated because they were worldly and weren't JWs! What a hoot that would be. BTW, you said they'd changed their views on Armageddon. How so?

13

Forgiveness Yesterday, Today and Forever

by Cold Steel in

i was just watching the jw broadcasting network and the topic being discussed was forgiveness.

the fellow presenting the topic was talking a brother who had sinned many years ago.

he finally came clean with the local elders, accepted his discipline and got on with his life.

Cold Steel

And yes, the witnesses baptize convicted and suspected murderers. They have special assigned brothers who study with prisoners.

Do you (or anyone else here) know anyone who's worked with convicts, especially convicted murderers?

Years ago, I did a series of articles on capital punishment. One of that series involved interviewing people on death row. Coincidentally they were all innocent, even the guy who left church a few minutes early and shot and killed three people in front of almost the entire congregation! He'd been on death row for years and if I hadn't been familiar with his case, I think he might have convinced me. Anyway, nearly all of these guys had Bibles in their cells and read them...religiously. So I wonder if someone on death row could be baptized into the WTS?

Another thing, if I understand JW doctrine correctly, can't someone repent at the time of resurrection? One of the publishers back in the 70s told me that all those who are alive at Armageddon will be able to choose between Satan and Jehovah -- and those who side with Jehovah will be saved. Based on what I've heard since leads me to think that's not entirely true. But if a murderer is executed, then comes forth in the resurrection, will he be saved if he's had a complete change of heart?

6

Two interesting places in the Bible, Bethel and Megiddo.

by Crazyguy in

first if one looks into the place bethel this is where the king of israel sets up golden calves and tells his people here is your god's go here and to dan to worship.

he didn't want his people going all the way down to jerusalem.

he also made his own priests again to take worship away from jerusalem and it's priests the levites.

Cold Steel

Megiddo is significant because this is where the last great battle before the Millennium takes place. Only this time, even enough overwhelmingly outnumbered, Jerusalem prevails. The WTS believes Armageddon will be a worldwide conflagration of good v. evil, in which Jehovah comes to the Earth and judges the people and nations. All the righteous will be resurrected and live in the paradisical glory enjoyed by Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, whilst all the wicked will be destroyed or resurrected and then destroyed.

In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddo.

So why is that? Why is there a great mourning in Jerusalem? The bad guys have just killed your best two assets, you're defenseless. You have no more weapons to unleash and then you suffer a major earthquake! Then you look heavenward and see a man descending out of the sky. It's the promised Messiah (or Jehovah, your call)...finally! What's there to be mournful about? Shouldn't this delivery from one's enemies be a celebratory event? But then there's that part about looking upon "me" whom they had "pierced."

What would happen if the Jews ran into the valley to escape their enemies, and when they looked upon their Messiah, much to their astonishment, found themselves gazing on Jesus of Nazareth, the one whom their fathers slew by the hands of the Romans? The scripture mentions it would be like mourning for one's "only son" with a "bitterness" akin to someone losing "his firstborn."

Yet the WTS misses the point entirely. As they explain it:

Simply stated, the war of Har–Magedon is the future earth-wide battle in which Jehovah’s appointed King, Jesus Christ, will destroy God’s enemies. The Bible explains that these enemies, “the kings of the entire inhabited earth,” are mobilized by “expressions inspired by demons” and are gathered together “to the war of the great day of God the Almighty...to the place that is called in Hebrew Har–Magedon.”—Revelation 16:14, 16.
The place where the warring parties gather is not literal. The name Har–Magedon, rendered “Armageddon” in some Bible translations, means “Mountain of Megiddo.” (Revelation 16:16, footnote) There has never been a mountain that bears that name. Furthermore, “the kings of the earth and their armies” could not literally gather in one place. (Revelation 19:19) Rather, “the place” refers to the condition or situation into which earth’s political rulers and their supporters are led—one of opposition to Jehovah and to “the armies that were in heaven” under the military command of the “King of kings and Lord of lords,” Jesus Christ.—Revelation 19:14, 16.

But how do they know that the place where the warring parties gather is not literal? Isn't prophecy literal by definition? If a prophet says something will come to pass at a certain place and time, what would it prove if the prophet's followers came back later and said, "Well of course it didn't happen that way! You took me literally! It actually did happen in 1912 in Pittsburgh, the spiritual Jerusalem!" Well, it would make the prophecy a laughing stock.

13

Jehovah or Jesus: Who Is To Come?

by Cold Steel in

one thing i've never understood about jw eschatology is how it views armageddon and the end times.

the leaders and writers have evolved in their understanding of what's supposed to happen in the timeline.

below are bible scriptures relating to biblical armageddon.

Cold Steel

GodZoo >> I thought that a hundred threads before this one firmly established that 'Jehovah' is a completely made up name. Yet people simply choose to forget or ignore this fact and carry on like it simply does not matter.

It actually doesn't matter because it's a translation. The original word was some iteration of the Tetragrammaton Yahweh, the Latinization being "Jehovah." What's important isn't the name itself but the identity. In this case it's the God of Israel being discussed -- the God of Abraham and Isaac. If we view the members of the Godhead in their proper context, we need not worry about whether we spell their names right.

13

Jehovah or Jesus: Who Is To Come?

by Cold Steel in

one thing i've never understood about jw eschatology is how it views armageddon and the end times.

the leaders and writers have evolved in their understanding of what's supposed to happen in the timeline.

below are bible scriptures relating to biblical armageddon.

Cold Steel

There's also Zech. 14:5... And you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

Yes, when Jesus sets his foot on the Mount of Olives, it shall split in twain. Sometimes we see it's Jehovah who's returning; other times it's Jehovah (as you state). Most biblical scholars believe it's Jesus who fulfills this, as when Jesus ascends from the Mount of Olives, the angel appears and tells the apostles he will return in like manner. By believing that Jehovah and the Father are the same, JWs create an awful knot they can't unravel. If they believe otherwise, they've just shot down the claims of the GB. Not a happy choice.

13

Jehovah or Jesus: Who Is To Come?

by Cold Steel in

one thing i've never understood about jw eschatology is how it views armageddon and the end times.

the leaders and writers have evolved in their understanding of what's supposed to happen in the timeline.

below are bible scriptures relating to biblical armageddon.

Cold Steel

It's not so much a trinitarian thing as an alternate understanding. After the fall of man, the Father, El Elyon, could no longer deal with man in his sinful condition. He chose his Son, Yahweh, in the beginning, to be the mediator between God (meaning the Father) and Adam (Man). Yahweh was the Son, the Messiah, Redeemer, the stone and God of Israel, Jehovah. He was the God of Abraham and Isaac, the one who called and spoke to Moses, who led the children of Israel from Egypt into the land of Canaan. Then, in the meridian of time, he was born into mortality and raised as Jesus, suffering and dying for mankind. At the end of the Millennium, he will present the Earth, sanctified and redeemed, back into the hand of the Father. It doesn't require the Father and the Son to be the same entity. They are ONE in the same sense that the apostles were to be ONE.

If one reads the NT, frequently the writers make a distinction between God and Jesus. They can indeed make a case that Jesus is not part of God. Even so, the apostle John seems to close the gap on that, especially in Revelation. In his writings, Jesus sits down with the Father on His throne, as we sit down with Jesus on His throne (which is the Father's throne). Thus, we become like Jesus and Jesus becomes like the Father and we, Jesus and the Father all become ONE. Since Yahweh is called God in the scriptures, and is later identified as Christ, we can conclude that Jesus (Yahweh) is a different being associated with God.